WEBVTT 00:00.640 --> 00:02.870 Good afternoon , my name is Jim mitri 00:02.870 --> 00:04.759 and until recently I was a senior 00:04.759 --> 00:06.703 advisor to the Deputy Secretary of 00:06.703 --> 00:08.870 Defense . My job was to help establish 00:08.870 --> 00:11.090 the CDA and the C . D . A . O . The 00:11.090 --> 00:12.701 chief digital and artificial 00:12.701 --> 00:14.646 intelligence officer just hit full 00:14.646 --> 00:16.868 operating capability last week . Now in 00:16.868 --> 00:19.034 the Department of Defense . Oftentimes 00:19.034 --> 00:21.257 after a michigan they'll be held what's 00:21.257 --> 00:23.479 often referred to as a hot wash , which 00:23.479 --> 00:25.479 is an opportunity to reflect on the 00:25.479 --> 00:27.479 mission , tease out some of the key 00:27.479 --> 00:29.479 lessons learned and think about the 00:29.479 --> 00:31.701 implications for the future . So in the 00:31.701 --> 00:31.370 spirit of a hot wash , the deputy 00:31.370 --> 00:33.592 secretary and I are now going to engage 00:33.592 --> 00:35.648 in a fireside chat to review some of 00:35.648 --> 00:37.814 the thinking and really understand her 00:37.814 --> 00:40.037 observations and insights about the C . 00:40.037 --> 00:42.600 D . A . O . No further ado it is my 00:42.600 --> 00:44.420 distinct privilege and honor to 00:44.420 --> 00:46.587 introduce the Deputy Secretary Defense 00:46.587 --> 00:48.809 dr Kathleen Hicks . Hi , good afternoon 00:48.809 --> 00:50.976 Jim and I know there's no fire but I'm 00:50.976 --> 00:53.031 letting it go . Well , fireside chat 00:53.031 --> 00:56.300 regardless . Indeed . Um great , well 00:56.310 --> 00:58.550 one of the things that I'm interested 00:58.550 --> 01:00.717 in understanding a little bit more and 01:00.717 --> 01:02.883 I suspect many on the line are as well 01:02.883 --> 01:05.106 is some of the initial observations you 01:05.106 --> 01:06.939 had when you first came into the 01:06.939 --> 01:06.800 Department of Defense and we're 01:06.800 --> 01:08.689 thinking that there is a specific 01:08.689 --> 01:10.744 problem here that you were trying to 01:10.744 --> 01:12.856 solve with the C . D . A . O . How do 01:12.856 --> 01:14.744 you think about articulating that 01:14.744 --> 01:17.490 problem ? Sure . So uh as you know , 01:17.490 --> 01:19.379 jim I'm I'm at my heart sort of a 01:19.379 --> 01:21.379 strategist and I think in a systems 01:21.379 --> 01:23.546 level approach . So I certainly didn't 01:23.546 --> 01:25.712 walk into the department and say I'm a 01:25.712 --> 01:28.450 software program or a data analyst or I 01:28.450 --> 01:30.940 know how to build . You know , I'm I'm 01:30.940 --> 01:34.190 a software engineer , um it really was 01:34.190 --> 01:36.560 coming in , seeing all the things we 01:36.560 --> 01:39.300 want to achieve for the nation , for 01:39.300 --> 01:41.940 the nation's defense and then um 01:41.950 --> 01:44.172 understanding the kinds of concepts and 01:44.172 --> 01:46.350 capabilities that lead to that and how 01:46.360 --> 01:49.950 what opportunity we had here based on 01:49.950 --> 01:53.260 what had been built before us in data 01:53.640 --> 01:56.590 in um the digital space . And of course 01:56.590 --> 01:59.670 on ai and how we had this opportunity 01:59.670 --> 02:02.200 to really move forward on our mission 02:02.200 --> 02:05.410 space if we could capitalize on that , 02:05.420 --> 02:07.630 those moves that had come before . So 02:07.630 --> 02:10.150 that was sort of the underlying sense I 02:10.150 --> 02:13.850 had . Um and the more I talked to the 02:13.850 --> 02:16.110 communities of interest learned what 02:16.110 --> 02:18.332 they were doing , got excited about the 02:18.332 --> 02:20.499 types of capabilities they could bring 02:20.499 --> 02:22.666 to bear and tied that . Um if you will 02:22.666 --> 02:24.777 bottom up , I don't I don't mean that 02:24.777 --> 02:26.943 in any disparaging way , but from that 02:26.943 --> 02:29.166 sense that they had at that operational 02:29.166 --> 02:31.277 level of what they could provide with 02:31.277 --> 02:33.332 those big strategic problems that we 02:33.332 --> 02:35.554 were looking at . It was a very natural 02:35.554 --> 02:38.800 next step . Um we took that step with a 02:38.800 --> 02:40.800 lot of advisement . We talked a lot 02:40.800 --> 02:43.022 with Congress , we talked with folks on 02:43.022 --> 02:45.600 the outside the certainly the um aI 02:45.600 --> 02:48.850 commission folks we I I asked for a 02:48.850 --> 02:50.794 commission to separate independent 02:50.794 --> 02:52.572 studies of what commercial best 02:52.572 --> 02:55.540 practice was and certainly talk to our 02:55.540 --> 02:58.850 own workforce and coming out of that 02:58.850 --> 03:01.310 really became clear that something like 03:01.320 --> 03:03.830 what we now call C . D . A . O . Was 03:03.830 --> 03:05.886 the best way to think about the tech 03:05.886 --> 03:08.380 stack that would help us unlock a lot 03:08.380 --> 03:10.380 of what we need in the department . 03:10.380 --> 03:12.269 Excellent . One thing that you've 03:12.269 --> 03:14.491 talked a lot about is the importance of 03:14.491 --> 03:16.713 using data informed decision making and 03:16.713 --> 03:18.658 provide you and the secretary with 03:18.658 --> 03:20.880 decision advantage if you will from the 03:20.880 --> 03:23.102 boardroom to the battlefield , I'd love 03:23.102 --> 03:25.213 to understand a little bit more about 03:25.213 --> 03:27.436 how you think about using data and some 03:27.436 --> 03:27.340 of the observations in terms of trying 03:27.340 --> 03:29.396 to work with where the department is 03:29.396 --> 03:31.229 today on having data inform your 03:31.229 --> 03:34.090 decision making . Absolutely . So jim , 03:34.090 --> 03:35.923 you know , all too well , I'm an 03:35.923 --> 03:38.690 analyst at heart and I like decisions 03:38.690 --> 03:41.730 to be based on facts and knowledge and 03:41.740 --> 03:44.130 we should all hope that that's the case . 03:44.140 --> 03:47.970 We sit sit as the Ceo of D O . D 03:47.970 --> 03:50.360 on top the largest organization in the 03:50.360 --> 03:53.930 world and we are under gunned in 03:53.930 --> 03:56.041 terms of the analytic capability that 03:56.041 --> 03:58.140 we tend to bring toward problems 03:58.140 --> 04:01.550 relative to the scale of both our size 04:01.550 --> 04:03.780 and then the kinds of the consequences 04:03.780 --> 04:05.836 of the challenges we're looking at . 04:06.040 --> 04:09.940 And so uh data isn't is another way 04:09.940 --> 04:12.250 an avenue toward better analysis , 04:12.250 --> 04:14.940 better fact finding , understanding how 04:14.940 --> 04:17.162 to see ourselves , understanding how to 04:17.162 --> 04:19.690 see our adversaries . Um , and and all 04:19.690 --> 04:23.080 the other facets of a situation . So if 04:23.080 --> 04:26.560 I want to ask a question on sustainment 04:27.040 --> 04:30.300 Where 70% of our funds and acquisition 04:30.310 --> 04:32.143 aren't going toward a platform , 04:32.143 --> 04:34.366 they're going to the sustainment side . 04:34.366 --> 04:36.600 Um I need to have an understanding of 04:36.600 --> 04:38.850 where that money goes and what the 04:38.850 --> 04:41.110 drivers are and how we can fix it . If 04:41.110 --> 04:42.832 I'm asking a question of , the 04:42.832 --> 04:45.060 secretary is asking a question about 04:45.140 --> 04:48.570 the logistics flow of material into 04:48.580 --> 04:51.640 Ukraine . Well let's look at the data 04:51.640 --> 04:53.880 of where that logistics flow is . What 04:53.880 --> 04:56.220 are our munition stocks ? What are the 04:56.220 --> 04:59.350 risks ? Data informs all of that and I 04:59.350 --> 05:01.760 think what we've been able because we 05:01.760 --> 05:05.680 are stepping into um leadership in this 05:05.680 --> 05:08.250 period of time were able to show that 05:08.260 --> 05:11.150 promise um you know the little peek 05:11.150 --> 05:13.180 under the tent about what unlocking 05:13.190 --> 05:15.990 data can do and then if you can add 05:15.990 --> 05:18.220 predictive analysis to it , what if we 05:18.220 --> 05:20.442 could really analyze all that data in a 05:20.442 --> 05:22.553 way that speedy with ai and also even 05:22.553 --> 05:26.200 then be predictive uh that shows so 05:26.200 --> 05:28.200 much potential as you said from the 05:28.200 --> 05:30.033 from the boardroom insiders that 05:30.033 --> 05:32.256 sustainment example shows . And then as 05:32.256 --> 05:35.070 you get closer in the you know , sensor 05:35.070 --> 05:37.830 to shooter piece of it , you start to 05:37.830 --> 05:41.410 see the advantage for data and for a I . 05:41.410 --> 05:44.560 And the C . D . O . Construct again as 05:44.560 --> 05:47.500 that tech stack um comes tighter 05:47.500 --> 05:49.278 together and there's a virtuous 05:49.278 --> 05:51.550 feedback cycle in really giving the 05:51.550 --> 05:53.640 United States that advantage on the 05:53.640 --> 05:57.120 decision decision making side accuracy 05:57.130 --> 06:00.950 prediction side ? Excellent . Now as a 06:00.950 --> 06:03.117 strategist and analyst , it's not lost 06:03.117 --> 06:05.061 on us that while you were thinking 06:05.061 --> 06:06.950 about creating the C . D . A . Oh 06:06.950 --> 06:08.950 you're also working on the National 06:08.950 --> 06:10.950 Defense strategy um I would love to 06:10.950 --> 06:13.117 learn a little bit more about what you 06:13.117 --> 06:15.172 see as the key elements of strategic 06:15.172 --> 06:15.120 context that should inform the C . D . 06:15.120 --> 06:17.360 A . O . As it embarks on its work . 06:17.370 --> 06:21.160 Absolutely . As as I I hope my 06:21.160 --> 06:24.210 examples I just gave demonstrate almost 06:24.210 --> 06:26.266 any strategy the United States would 06:26.266 --> 06:28.740 have right now would benefit from C . D . 06:28.740 --> 06:31.640 A . Oh so it's it's it's um I think 06:31.640 --> 06:34.850 it's an enduring concept and again 06:34.850 --> 06:36.794 builds on what's come before and I 06:36.794 --> 06:39.650 would anticipate in the future anyone 06:39.650 --> 06:41.594 would continue to build on this no 06:41.594 --> 06:44.400 matter what their N . D . S . Is that 06:44.400 --> 06:46.650 said this N . D . S . Is very much 06:46.650 --> 06:49.300 aligned to what we're trying to achieve 06:49.300 --> 06:51.411 with the C . D . A . O . Stand up and 06:51.411 --> 06:53.633 of course what the broader community is 06:53.633 --> 06:55.467 trying to achieve across all the 06:55.467 --> 06:58.740 digital and data spaces . So um that 06:58.750 --> 07:01.650 includes for instance in this strategy 07:01.660 --> 07:03.710 the three ways that we go about the 07:03.710 --> 07:05.750 strategy the first and and most 07:05.760 --> 07:07.980 overarching and integrated is 07:07.990 --> 07:10.670 integrated deterrence and there were 07:10.670 --> 07:13.660 focused on how do we bring combat 07:13.660 --> 07:16.000 credibility , how do we bring combat 07:16.000 --> 07:18.670 power across the spectrum of conflict 07:18.670 --> 07:20.781 from below the sub conventional level 07:20.781 --> 07:22.892 up through the strategic level across 07:22.892 --> 07:25.059 all the domains , Air land , sea space 07:25.059 --> 07:28.050 cyber , how do we work with allies ? Um , 07:28.060 --> 07:30.270 well guess what data is , how we share 07:30.270 --> 07:33.480 data , how we operate together With a 07:33.480 --> 07:35.647 common operating picture , as we might 07:35.647 --> 07:37.758 have called it , you know , a mere 20 07:37.758 --> 07:39.980 years ago . That is vital to integrated 07:39.980 --> 07:42.202 deterrence . Um , and I think we , as I 07:42.202 --> 07:44.258 said in the sensor to shooter side , 07:44.258 --> 07:46.424 there's a lot of opportunity here that 07:46.424 --> 07:49.740 enhances us combat credit building on 07:49.740 --> 07:51.962 campaigning , which is our second weigh 07:51.962 --> 07:54.073 in the strategy . That's really about 07:54.073 --> 07:56.210 day to day . How do we dynamically 07:56.220 --> 07:59.370 shift the agile , make decisions , be 07:59.370 --> 08:02.530 opportunistic and frame that deterrence 08:02.530 --> 08:04.700 that integrated deterrence in a day to 08:04.700 --> 08:07.330 day way that tells an adversary today 08:07.330 --> 08:09.497 is not your day . You don't want to go 08:09.497 --> 08:11.660 after the United States today . Doing 08:11.670 --> 08:14.830 um doing that really does again get 08:14.830 --> 08:16.990 enhanced if you have more decision 08:16.990 --> 08:18.712 making time and space , better 08:18.712 --> 08:21.130 indications and morning , faint signals 08:21.130 --> 08:22.963 being able to read faint , faint 08:22.963 --> 08:25.390 signals from a broad array of different 08:25.390 --> 08:27.560 sectors and data . Economic 08:28.130 --> 08:30.900 informational , certainly military , so 08:30.900 --> 08:33.160 it's really inherently important there 08:33.540 --> 08:35.762 Finally building and during advantage . 08:35.762 --> 08:38.810 Our 3rd way in the strategy is about 08:38.810 --> 08:40.421 making sure that we make the 08:40.421 --> 08:42.643 investments today , the seed corn today 08:42.643 --> 08:44.810 is invested in so that it harvest , we 08:44.810 --> 08:46.699 can harvest it in the long term . 08:46.699 --> 08:48.770 That's about our work for the space 08:48.770 --> 08:50.992 we're talking about , it's about making 08:50.992 --> 08:53.048 sure we have a strong workforce were 08:53.048 --> 08:55.048 technically competent , we have the 08:55.048 --> 08:57.103 processes , from hiring processes to 08:57.103 --> 08:59.159 procurement processes in place to be 08:59.159 --> 09:01.214 agile . We know how to work with the 09:01.214 --> 09:03.381 commercial sector well . And this is a 09:03.381 --> 09:05.900 space where I think again we want to 09:05.900 --> 09:07.956 demonstrate , we can do all of those 09:07.956 --> 09:10.011 things both with our own workforce , 09:10.011 --> 09:12.178 our own contracting , but also as part 09:12.178 --> 09:15.290 of a broader US economic competitive 09:15.340 --> 09:18.340 space . Excellent . Well , tying two 09:18.340 --> 09:20.396 themes together . You talk about the 09:20.396 --> 09:22.507 strategy talk , you made reference to 09:22.507 --> 09:24.673 the National Security Commission on AI 09:24.673 --> 09:26.507 report that was in many ways the 09:26.507 --> 09:28.729 Touchstone for us in developing the C D 09:28.729 --> 09:30.951 AO , regularly reviewing consulting its 09:30.951 --> 09:33.118 recommendations . And you talked about 09:33.118 --> 09:35.118 the importance of thinking about AI 09:35.118 --> 09:37.118 within the tech stack . Right ? And 09:37.118 --> 09:39.340 bringing C D O is in many ways bringing 09:39.340 --> 09:38.920 some of the key building blocks 09:38.920 --> 09:41.620 together of that tech stack . The NsC A 09:41.620 --> 09:43.787 Commission report also talks about the 09:43.787 --> 09:45.900 importance and the urgency of the 09:45.900 --> 09:48.560 department's pursuit of AI technologies 09:48.570 --> 09:50.737 in relation to the china competition . 09:51.140 --> 09:53.307 Um Is there anything specific that's , 09:53.307 --> 09:55.529 you know , coming to your mind when you 09:55.529 --> 09:57.640 think about the NsC I recommendations 09:57.640 --> 09:59.640 or the china dynamic here , that is 09:59.640 --> 10:01.807 important for us to understand for C D 10:01.807 --> 10:04.029 A O . Well , let me just say two things 10:04.029 --> 10:06.251 that might not immediately come to mind 10:06.251 --> 10:08.473 uh for folks , but the first is what it 10:08.473 --> 10:11.120 told me is we need a world class AI 10:11.120 --> 10:13.440 talent and that explains dr craig 10:13.440 --> 10:15.920 martell as the selection for C D . Ao 10:15.920 --> 10:18.031 and the great team that he has around 10:18.031 --> 10:20.260 him with margie Palmieri and others . 10:20.740 --> 10:22.810 Um But that's what it told me right 10:22.810 --> 10:24.977 there , which is the United States and 10:24.977 --> 10:26.977 the Department Defense specifically 10:26.977 --> 10:29.199 needs to bring that kind of talent . We 10:29.199 --> 10:31.310 need to be able to access that talent 10:31.310 --> 10:33.510 not just hire it , but we do need on 10:33.520 --> 10:37.200 you know , folks inside the system able 10:37.200 --> 10:40.000 to help us conceptualize and build out 10:40.000 --> 10:43.980 the kind of um um you know Ai 10:43.980 --> 10:47.230 enterprise that we need . Um I think 10:47.230 --> 10:49.397 the second thing I would go to again , 10:49.397 --> 10:51.508 probably not necessarily where others 10:51.508 --> 10:53.674 might immediately is the importance of 10:53.674 --> 10:56.830 the U . S . Using AI employing having 10:56.840 --> 11:00.130 AI enabled approaches that fit with our 11:00.130 --> 11:02.270 norms and the way we think about 11:02.270 --> 11:04.492 warfare and that's where responsible AI 11:04.492 --> 11:06.750 is so important . We have right now 11:06.750 --> 11:10.300 underway a rewrite of the of the D . O . 11:10.300 --> 11:13.650 D . Policy on responsible Ai 11:13.840 --> 11:17.790 we have been a leader in responsible Ai 11:17.800 --> 11:20.640 we have set this pace for allies and 11:20.640 --> 11:23.800 partners um and certainly for 11:23.800 --> 11:25.967 adversaries who have nothing like it . 11:26.040 --> 11:28.980 Um And I think we can be very effective 11:28.980 --> 11:31.640 in warfare . We can create an effective 11:31.640 --> 11:34.230 deterrent and stick by our norms and 11:34.230 --> 11:36.286 that's who we are as a people that's 11:36.286 --> 11:38.452 really important to me that we advance 11:38.452 --> 11:41.720 that through C . D . A . Um and what 11:41.720 --> 11:43.664 you're talking to your starting to 11:43.664 --> 11:45.387 scratch out a theory of change 11:45.387 --> 11:45.240 management , how you move the 11:45.240 --> 11:47.407 bureaucracy ? I'd love to understand a 11:47.407 --> 11:49.573 little bit more about what your theory 11:49.573 --> 11:51.462 is . How do you think , given the 11:51.462 --> 11:53.518 extensive experience you have here , 11:53.518 --> 11:55.518 how does C . D . A . Oh you know dr 11:55.518 --> 11:55.390 craig martell come in actually move the 11:55.390 --> 11:58.380 bureaucracy in a meaningful way . I 11:58.380 --> 12:00.102 think leadership is incredibly 12:00.102 --> 12:02.270 important and the ways in which 12:02.270 --> 12:05.860 leadership speak use their time 12:06.240 --> 12:08.420 drive the system hold people 12:08.420 --> 12:11.010 accountable will be very important here . 12:11.020 --> 12:13.187 Um The secretary and I are ready to be 12:13.187 --> 12:15.187 you know at the at the forefront of 12:15.187 --> 12:17.298 that to be part of that change and to 12:17.298 --> 12:19.970 help dr martel do the same along with 12:19.970 --> 12:22.430 the team in C . D . A . Oh so right at 12:22.430 --> 12:25.370 the top is leading and how we set our 12:25.370 --> 12:27.760 expectations and hold folks accountable . 12:28.240 --> 12:31.640 Um Part of holding folks accountable um 12:31.650 --> 12:33.950 is eased substantially in terms of 12:33.950 --> 12:35.728 cultural change by aligning the 12:35.728 --> 12:38.670 incentives correctly . That can be very 12:38.680 --> 12:40.840 very tricky here in the department 12:40.840 --> 12:43.180 because we are we have many cross 12:43.180 --> 12:45.236 cutting incentive structures we have 12:45.540 --> 12:47.707 Within title 10 , you know , different 12:47.707 --> 12:50.340 sub components of D . O . D . that have 12:50.350 --> 12:52.600 different mandates as opposed to a 12:52.600 --> 12:54.711 corporation . In other words where it 12:54.711 --> 12:56.822 kind of cleanly comes up to the top . 12:57.040 --> 13:00.150 We of course have across the river we 13:00.150 --> 13:02.150 have folks who have different views 13:02.150 --> 13:04.094 potentially and different from one 13:04.094 --> 13:05.983 another about what they think the 13:05.983 --> 13:08.206 department should be seeking to achieve 13:08.206 --> 13:10.261 and have the ability to , you know , 13:10.261 --> 13:12.730 line in line out what our direction is 13:12.730 --> 13:15.460 and so that creates some complications . 13:15.840 --> 13:18.007 Um , and and there are others that are 13:18.007 --> 13:20.062 complicated , but I think that's the 13:20.062 --> 13:22.550 heart of how you change culture is you 13:22.550 --> 13:24.550 go after the incentives . So what's 13:24.550 --> 13:27.040 that theory for C . D . A . Oh , so far ? 13:27.050 --> 13:30.180 And I am definitely going to be looking 13:30.180 --> 13:32.720 to dr martel to help us with his 13:32.720 --> 13:35.510 insights on , on how he thinks about 13:35.510 --> 13:38.540 change . Um , so far , part of our 13:38.540 --> 13:42.160 theory is showing um particularly 13:42.160 --> 13:44.271 combatant commanders or commanders at 13:44.271 --> 13:46.770 the operational level , what they wish 13:46.770 --> 13:48.881 they didn't couldn't live with that , 13:48.881 --> 13:50.992 what what can they not live without ? 13:50.992 --> 13:53.210 And um , you know , oftentimes they 13:53.210 --> 13:55.377 have no idea , they're perfectly happy 13:55.377 --> 13:57.488 with a grease board , you know , just 13:57.488 --> 13:59.599 like people might have been perfectly 13:59.599 --> 14:01.990 happy with a printed map To get them 14:02.000 --> 14:04.230 through cross streets in Washington D . 14:04.230 --> 14:06.750 C . you know , 10 years ago . Whereas 14:06.750 --> 14:08.972 today , you can't live without your app 14:08.972 --> 14:10.583 in particular if your app is 14:10.583 --> 14:12.361 crowdsourced and it has lots of 14:12.361 --> 14:14.472 information and things like that um , 14:14.472 --> 14:17.050 that help you navigate similarly . What 14:17.050 --> 14:19.740 we're finding is if you can show those 14:19.740 --> 14:22.320 use cases and they get back to what I 14:22.320 --> 14:24.376 said before they get to the heart of 14:24.376 --> 14:26.820 the mission and our mission is both to 14:26.830 --> 14:29.108 obviously delivered to the war fighter , 14:29.108 --> 14:31.274 it's also to deliver to the taxpayer . 14:31.274 --> 14:33.497 So we're back to your , you know , um , 14:33.940 --> 14:36.162 opening one of your opening questions , 14:36.162 --> 14:38.051 we want to go after both of those 14:38.051 --> 14:39.940 because the incentives inside our 14:39.940 --> 14:42.051 structure are different for different 14:42.051 --> 14:44.162 communities . So if we can save a lot 14:44.162 --> 14:46.329 of money which we will be able to save 14:46.329 --> 14:48.218 a lot of money if we can pay back 14:48.218 --> 14:50.384 through investments in our tech talent 14:50.384 --> 14:52.300 and our tools and our upgrades of 14:52.300 --> 14:54.510 software . You name it . We want to go 14:54.510 --> 14:56.566 after that to get some of that money 14:56.566 --> 14:58.621 back because that money can help the 14:58.621 --> 15:00.843 warfighter . Um and it also goes to our 15:00.843 --> 15:02.843 mission as a responsible steward of 15:02.843 --> 15:04.677 taxpayer dollars . But more than 15:04.677 --> 15:06.843 anything what we want to do is be able 15:06.843 --> 15:09.010 to find those use cases and unlock the 15:09.010 --> 15:11.177 potential for decision makers like the 15:11.177 --> 15:13.066 secretary out to the field to the 15:13.066 --> 15:16.260 warfighter um to show them how they can 15:16.270 --> 15:18.190 achieve their objectives , their 15:18.190 --> 15:20.079 military objectives . Operational 15:20.079 --> 15:22.023 objectives on behalf of the United 15:22.023 --> 15:25.110 States better smarter faster with with 15:25.110 --> 15:27.960 these tool with this tool kit . Okay , 15:29.070 --> 15:31.126 probing just a little bit further on 15:31.126 --> 15:33.292 this topic , you mentioned our friends 15:33.292 --> 15:35.403 across the river , one of them is the 15:35.403 --> 15:37.580 Congress and one of the things C . D . 15:37.580 --> 15:39.636 Is gonna need to do is try to find a 15:39.636 --> 15:41.691 way to help establish constituencies 15:41.691 --> 15:43.691 that can help get more attention on 15:43.691 --> 15:45.636 things like software as opposed to 15:45.636 --> 15:45.460 hardware and move in that direction . 15:45.940 --> 15:48.970 What advice do you have for uh dr 15:48.970 --> 15:51.137 martel and margie in the team in terms 15:51.137 --> 15:52.859 of how to build those types of 15:52.859 --> 15:54.692 constituencies that can actually 15:54.692 --> 15:56.692 meaningful change the direction the 15:56.692 --> 15:58.859 nation is going in . Sure . Well there 15:58.859 --> 16:01.490 is a massive U . S . Innovation 16:01.490 --> 16:04.640 ecosystem and it is increasingly 16:04.640 --> 16:06.418 focused on software rather than 16:06.418 --> 16:08.473 hardware . And that's true of course 16:08.473 --> 16:11.470 for defense as well . And so um the 16:11.470 --> 16:14.670 ability to point to what the department 16:14.670 --> 16:17.560 can ignite in that industry and how we 16:17.650 --> 16:20.510 interact with industry , small 16:20.510 --> 16:23.040 businesses all the way up through , you 16:23.040 --> 16:26.640 know , large global businesses . Um I 16:26.640 --> 16:28.751 think that's a really strong place to 16:28.751 --> 16:31.190 start demonstrating that we are part of 16:31.190 --> 16:33.880 an american competitiveness story um 16:33.890 --> 16:36.112 that we don't have to think about it as 16:36.112 --> 16:38.446 the defense industrial base if you will . 16:38.446 --> 16:40.510 Um per se . Although they're a big 16:40.520 --> 16:42.970 piece of how we go after this issue set , 16:42.980 --> 16:45.202 but we have to be really thinking about 16:45.202 --> 16:47.610 what D . O . D . Can do on behalf of 16:47.620 --> 16:49.842 the american competitiveness story . So 16:49.842 --> 16:51.898 I think there's a lot of opportunity 16:51.898 --> 16:54.120 there . I think second I would say more 16:54.120 --> 16:56.176 functionally , you know it's talking 16:56.176 --> 16:57.842 it's telling the story , it's 16:57.842 --> 17:00.009 explaining those use cases . I pointed 17:00.009 --> 17:02.231 to that this isn't a science experiment 17:02.231 --> 17:04.690 that we can demonstrate value . Value 17:04.690 --> 17:06.912 can be counted in dollars and value can 17:06.912 --> 17:09.134 be counted in mission success and lives 17:09.134 --> 17:11.970 saved . Um And we will absolutely , we 17:11.980 --> 17:14.170 already have some of those examples 17:14.170 --> 17:16.560 from Afghanistan and Ukraine just 17:16.560 --> 17:18.890 within the last year to work that's 17:18.890 --> 17:21.120 been undergo underway . For example 17:21.120 --> 17:23.240 under the jake with Game changer and 17:23.240 --> 17:25.740 some of the other um efforts that are 17:25.740 --> 17:27.970 longer standing , we just need to be 17:27.970 --> 17:30.850 better at telling that story . Let's 17:30.850 --> 17:32.683 talk a little bit more about the 17:32.683 --> 17:34.628 industry . Um One of the things we 17:34.628 --> 17:36.794 heard a lot in establishing C . D . AO 17:36.794 --> 17:38.739 from small businesses , you know , 17:38.739 --> 17:40.961 large traditional crimes as well as the 17:40.961 --> 17:43.128 venture capitalist community is a real 17:43.128 --> 17:45.294 desire based on mission to try to work 17:45.294 --> 17:45.260 with the Department of Defense . But 17:45.260 --> 17:47.482 yet still a lot of challenges and being 17:47.482 --> 17:49.704 able to access things given how long it 17:49.704 --> 17:51.704 takes for contracts to be awarded . 17:51.704 --> 17:53.649 Given the opaque nature in certain 17:53.649 --> 17:55.760 cases about the regulations process , 17:55.760 --> 17:57.704 they need to abide by . How do you 17:57.704 --> 17:59.760 think C . D . A . O . Should play in 17:59.760 --> 18:01.927 that space and help establish stronger 18:01.927 --> 18:03.982 relationships with industry ? Let me 18:03.982 --> 18:06.340 first say um I feel in no way defensive 18:06.340 --> 18:08.560 on this question and no one in the 18:08.560 --> 18:09.949 department should we are 18:09.949 --> 18:12.227 extraordinarily difficult to work with . 18:12.227 --> 18:15.840 Um and uh there's a lot for us to 18:15.840 --> 18:18.300 shift in terms of our processes , some 18:18.300 --> 18:20.520 statutory issues , but mostly in our 18:20.520 --> 18:22.780 processes and culture and workforce 18:22.780 --> 18:24.950 training and staffing . I mean , 18:24.960 --> 18:27.182 particularly post covid , you know , we 18:27.182 --> 18:29.127 have some real staffing challenges 18:29.127 --> 18:31.127 throughout the department that then 18:31.127 --> 18:33.127 have compounding impacts on on this 18:33.127 --> 18:35.349 issue of how we work with industry . So 18:35.349 --> 18:37.460 I think the first thing is that As in 18:37.460 --> 18:39.516 any 12 step program acknowledged the 18:39.516 --> 18:41.682 problem . Um So we need to acknowledge 18:41.682 --> 18:43.849 that we are a difficult uh partner and 18:43.849 --> 18:46.360 we need to get better then I think it's 18:46.360 --> 18:48.760 about how we go , how we go after it . 18:48.770 --> 18:50.714 I think there's a real part of the 18:50.714 --> 18:52.937 impetus I had in the C . D . A . O . Is 18:52.937 --> 18:55.720 there's there's there's a power in 18:55.720 --> 18:58.940 bringing a vanguard organization with 18:58.940 --> 19:01.260 direct reporting relationship to me and 19:01.260 --> 19:03.880 to the secretary at the four star level 19:04.110 --> 19:07.860 that can push us in these areas . Again , 19:07.860 --> 19:09.804 they can build on work that's been 19:09.804 --> 19:12.130 underway . We have a number of Um 19:12.140 --> 19:14.060 procurement vehicles for instance 19:14.060 --> 19:16.060 already available . I think there's 19:16.060 --> 19:17.840 five that are really focused on 19:17.850 --> 19:21.590 expanding the our our access in D . O . 19:21.590 --> 19:25.230 D . To non traditional companies . We 19:25.230 --> 19:28.510 have the ability to be a vanguard on 19:28.520 --> 19:31.020 the workforce , the innovation 19:31.020 --> 19:34.650 workforce and I have an effort underway 19:34.650 --> 19:36.872 on that . I'm very hopeful that C . D . 19:36.872 --> 19:39.094 AO will be right up there with ideas of 19:39.094 --> 19:42.680 how we get better at um both recruiting 19:42.680 --> 19:44.847 talent but up skilling and re skilling 19:44.847 --> 19:47.124 and then retaining some of that talent , 19:47.124 --> 19:49.069 some talent , we need to be really 19:49.069 --> 19:51.347 comfortable with it flowing in and out . 19:51.347 --> 19:53.180 I think that model is completely 19:53.180 --> 19:55.236 appropriate and we just have to were 19:55.236 --> 19:57.347 not comfortable with that typically , 19:57.347 --> 19:59.569 so we need to get more comfortable with 19:59.569 --> 20:01.624 it . So those are some of the ways I 20:01.624 --> 20:03.847 think C . D . Ao it will be an exemplar 20:03.847 --> 20:03.800 and again , I'll just say vanguard 20:03.800 --> 20:05.856 because it's more than an exemplar , 20:05.856 --> 20:07.800 they , this ought to be one of the 20:07.800 --> 20:10.022 places folks look at and say that's the 20:10.022 --> 20:12.189 way we want to do this in government . 20:12.189 --> 20:14.356 This is government going the right way 20:14.356 --> 20:16.522 and it's hopefully we'll be able to do 20:16.522 --> 20:18.467 it at a scale that then translates 20:18.467 --> 20:20.467 helps us translate across the whole 20:20.467 --> 20:22.578 department yesterday . And one of the 20:22.578 --> 20:24.800 panels , we actually talked a bit about 20:24.800 --> 20:26.930 some of the obstacles C . D AO could 20:26.930 --> 20:29.670 face and making the department help be 20:29.670 --> 20:31.781 better at adopting data analytics and 20:31.781 --> 20:34.370 AI at scale . You initiated at this 20:34.370 --> 20:37.260 forum a year ago the ADA initiative 20:37.270 --> 20:40.230 which is all about accelerating AI and 20:40.230 --> 20:42.950 data . Uh , advantage . Advantage . 20:43.390 --> 20:45.560 Yeah , the good news is I remember 20:45.560 --> 20:47.671 would be bad if I can't remember what 20:47.671 --> 20:50.270 it stands for . Yeah . With that 20:50.270 --> 20:52.270 initiative , you know , it's been a 20:52.270 --> 20:54.214 year since you've announced it and 20:54.214 --> 20:56.326 there's been a lot of effort underway 20:56.326 --> 20:58.326 in that regard . Are there some key 20:58.326 --> 21:00.270 lessons learned in terms of what's 21:00.270 --> 20:59.660 working or where you see more 20:59.660 --> 21:01.771 opportunities for Cdo to help advance 21:01.771 --> 21:03.938 data and deliver analytics and the eye 21:03.938 --> 21:05.840 at the commands ? Yeah , I'm very 21:05.840 --> 21:07.990 pleased with where we are a year in 21:08.000 --> 21:11.980 that said , you know , we can do more 21:11.980 --> 21:14.590 and we will do more and we're always 21:14.840 --> 21:17.062 we're always chasing behind the curve I 21:17.062 --> 21:18.784 think on because of the pacing 21:18.784 --> 21:21.090 challenge that we face with china on a 21:21.090 --> 21:23.146 to what we found is there's a lot of 21:23.146 --> 21:25.312 enthusiasm out of the commands when we 21:25.312 --> 21:27.312 can get the teams out there . Covid 21:27.312 --> 21:29.423 again , has been complicating to that 21:29.423 --> 21:32.780 easier more recently . Um , and we see 21:32.780 --> 21:35.580 a lot of natural use cases , questions 21:35.580 --> 21:37.691 that combatant commanders really want 21:37.691 --> 21:39.940 help answering and the applicant the 21:39.940 --> 21:43.670 ability to apply answers through ADA , 21:44.140 --> 21:46.140 which by the way is named after Ada 21:46.140 --> 21:48.140 Lovelace . I have to stress because 21:48.140 --> 21:50.307 I've heard other people refer to it as 21:50.307 --> 21:52.307 a D A . So I wish I wish to express 21:52.307 --> 21:51.880 right here . It's named after Ada 21:51.880 --> 21:55.580 Lovelace . Um Another thing we've seen 21:55.580 --> 21:58.080 is that there's unsurprisingly there's 21:58.080 --> 22:00.220 different maturity levels throughout 22:00.220 --> 22:02.387 the department of course , but also of 22:02.387 --> 22:04.164 course throughout the combatant 22:04.164 --> 22:06.220 commands and so some are had already 22:06.220 --> 22:08.850 been further along their own journey on 22:08.860 --> 22:12.670 adoption of of both 22:12.670 --> 22:16.520 Ai and data than others . And so 22:16.530 --> 22:19.310 we're kind of , we're by necessity sort 22:19.310 --> 22:21.800 of pacing to that . And then last I'd 22:21.800 --> 22:23.744 say we're finding that many of the 22:23.744 --> 22:27.680 problems that we're seeing are 22:27.690 --> 22:31.390 common and or there are common 22:31.390 --> 22:35.170 solution approaches and because we're 22:35.170 --> 22:37.470 at the enterprise level at ADA , that's 22:37.470 --> 22:39.470 kind of the beauty of the Federated 22:39.470 --> 22:41.470 approach . We have this centralized 22:41.470 --> 22:43.581 repository of knowledge and expertise 22:43.581 --> 22:46.850 and data um and tools and contract 22:46.850 --> 22:49.620 vehicles , um and folks who understand 22:49.620 --> 22:51.731 how to use contract vehicles for this 22:51.731 --> 22:53.842 purpose . And then these problem sets 22:53.842 --> 22:55.898 can come in and we can tailor if you 22:55.898 --> 22:59.120 will more easily and get solutions out 22:59.120 --> 23:01.342 faster . I think that's what we've seen 23:01.342 --> 23:03.398 to date . It's a three year effort , 23:03.398 --> 23:05.564 meaning I'm funding it if you will for 23:05.564 --> 23:07.676 three years Um and we're going to see 23:07.676 --> 23:09.842 as we get through FY 24 being the last 23:09.842 --> 23:12.940 of those years where we are with ADA 23:12.950 --> 23:15.228 and what the next natural evolution is , 23:15.228 --> 23:17.339 I think we should be very unafraid to 23:17.339 --> 23:21.220 shift approaches as the stand up of C d 23:21.220 --> 23:24.580 o itself shows and and make sure we are 23:24.590 --> 23:27.320 ahead of the curve , not chasing a 23:27.320 --> 23:29.570 curve by being committed to either 23:29.570 --> 23:32.460 particular initiatives and or to um 23:32.940 --> 23:35.610 organizational constructs . That said 23:35.620 --> 23:38.960 again , I think ADA in and of itself is 23:38.970 --> 23:41.810 it is it is proving its worth and I 23:41.810 --> 23:43.921 think anything that would follow it , 23:43.980 --> 23:46.036 whether it's called ADA or something 23:46.036 --> 23:48.230 else , naturally will build on what we 23:48.230 --> 23:51.620 do here . Great . Another one of your 23:51.620 --> 23:53.750 key initiatives as related to 23:53.750 --> 23:56.240 responsible AI put out ethical 23:56.240 --> 23:58.810 principles , you threw the Cdo 23:58.810 --> 24:01.340 construct actually elevated the role of 24:01.340 --> 24:03.507 responsibility within the organization 24:03.507 --> 24:05.507 by having a chief of Ai assurance , 24:05.507 --> 24:07.562 who's a direct report to the C D A O 24:07.562 --> 24:09.562 and will soon be putting forward an 24:09.562 --> 24:11.729 implementation plan on our ai what are 24:11.729 --> 24:13.840 your thoughts on how that's going and 24:13.840 --> 24:13.830 how the department's actually moving 24:13.830 --> 24:16.052 towards taking that seriously and being 24:16.052 --> 24:18.219 more responsible in the development of 24:18.219 --> 24:20.480 AI I do think we're a leader in 24:20.490 --> 24:23.790 responsible Ai the department got out 24:23.800 --> 24:27.100 early and then again under Secretary 24:27.100 --> 24:29.590 esper , put out some guidance and again , 24:29.600 --> 24:32.660 I put out some guidance last year , um 24:32.670 --> 24:35.140 and that has the benefit of 24:35.140 --> 24:36.973 demonstrating both from the very 24:36.973 --> 24:39.170 beginning if you will back in 2012 and 24:39.170 --> 24:41.380 we , when we last worked together , we 24:41.380 --> 24:43.047 were putting out , you know , 24:43.047 --> 24:46.720 responsible ai um guidance and that we 24:46.720 --> 24:48.942 are continuing that commitment and that 24:48.942 --> 24:51.164 that commitment is bipartisan that it's 24:51.164 --> 24:52.776 happened under both the last 24:52.776 --> 24:54.831 administration and this one . That's 24:54.831 --> 24:56.664 the good news . I do think we're 24:56.664 --> 24:58.887 leading , I think that the the areas to 24:58.887 --> 25:02.430 grow , um are there the international 25:02.430 --> 25:05.390 community probably needs to push along 25:05.390 --> 25:08.010 further in this space . We will want to 25:08.010 --> 25:10.310 be a leader in that , but we also want 25:10.310 --> 25:13.430 the overall space of AI use um to be 25:13.430 --> 25:15.541 governed responsibly . And there is a 25:15.541 --> 25:17.708 lot of room there . I think again with 25:17.708 --> 25:20.170 C D A o being established at the four 25:20.170 --> 25:22.114 star level , really elevating that 25:22.114 --> 25:25.540 responsible Ai um initiative and 25:25.540 --> 25:28.150 bringing it into focus . I hope that 25:28.150 --> 25:30.261 there's a lot of opportunity there to 25:30.261 --> 25:34.140 grow now with Cdo just achieving a full 25:34.140 --> 25:36.473 operating capability in many ways . Now . 25:36.473 --> 25:38.084 The hard work begins for the 25:38.084 --> 25:40.400 organization . How are you going to 25:40.410 --> 25:42.521 evaluate its progress and what do you 25:42.521 --> 25:44.688 have in mind when you think about what 25:44.688 --> 25:46.854 success looks like for sure . Well , I 25:46.854 --> 25:48.743 do think it's really important to 25:48.743 --> 25:50.799 empower the team there to , first of 25:50.799 --> 25:52.910 all take a little time as they've put 25:52.910 --> 25:56.160 themselves together in f Oc um to think 25:56.160 --> 25:58.382 through that problem set themselves and 25:58.382 --> 26:00.620 put some measures out that we can we 26:00.620 --> 26:02.620 can talk about . So I'm not I'm not 26:02.620 --> 26:04.842 going to get in front of that process . 26:04.842 --> 26:07.530 What I will say is that we have to be 26:07.530 --> 26:10.560 able to deliver . We have to advance 26:11.040 --> 26:14.320 and advanced quickly on the challenge 26:14.320 --> 26:16.770 set that the war fighter faces . And so 26:16.780 --> 26:19.002 inside the department often this is all 26:19.002 --> 26:21.630 categorized under Jazz C . To join all 26:21.630 --> 26:23.810 demand , command and control . Um 26:23.820 --> 26:26.060 However one wishes to characterize it . 26:26.060 --> 26:28.171 What we want to be able to do is make 26:28.171 --> 26:30.780 sure we are leveraging the state of the 26:30.780 --> 26:34.170 art um in order to 26:34.180 --> 26:36.640 increase accuracy , increased speed of 26:36.640 --> 26:39.590 decision making , increase the quality 26:39.590 --> 26:41.790 of the of our ability to deliver 26:41.790 --> 26:44.620 effects . And if we can do that it 26:44.620 --> 26:46.787 helps again all the way back up to our 26:46.787 --> 26:49.009 mission . It helps us defend the nation 26:49.009 --> 26:51.520 in particular by demonstrating our 26:51.520 --> 26:54.090 ability to do integrated deterrence , 26:54.100 --> 26:56.044 enabling integrated deterrence and 26:56.044 --> 26:58.820 enabling campaigning . We really can't 26:58.820 --> 27:01.190 campaign effectively . We have tried 27:01.210 --> 27:04.910 globally against a competitor um with 27:04.910 --> 27:08.110 such significant work underway in the 27:08.110 --> 27:10.332 military and in other realms as china . 27:10.640 --> 27:12.930 Uh just sort of hand jamming and power 27:12.930 --> 27:15.220 point sliding our way through that . Um 27:15.230 --> 27:18.240 We need to be able to access the data 27:18.240 --> 27:20.351 that's out there but we need to do it 27:20.351 --> 27:22.520 our way not china's way uh back to the 27:22.520 --> 27:25.150 responsible piece . Um And so we need 27:25.150 --> 27:26.928 to be able to have a system and 27:26.928 --> 27:29.660 approach uh within the department and 27:29.740 --> 27:32.390 and the C . D . A . O . Has to be seen 27:32.390 --> 27:35.410 a year in as delivering on that and as 27:35.410 --> 27:39.190 the go to place for talent um and 27:39.200 --> 27:41.360 technical expertise to get after that 27:41.360 --> 27:43.880 problem . Excellent . Okay . Well 27:43.880 --> 27:46.047 unfortunately that's all the time that 27:46.047 --> 27:48.102 we'll have for today to explore this 27:48.102 --> 27:50.269 topic . But thanks so much for finding 27:50.269 --> 27:52.324 the time to chat with me and share a 27:52.324 --> 27:52.040 little bit more of the logic behind the 27:52.040 --> 27:54.207 C . D . A . And thank you Jim for your 27:54.207 --> 27:56.318 hard work standing up the C . D . O . 27:56.318 --> 27:58.429 We would not be here today if it were 27:58.429 --> 28:00.340 not for all that you did . Yeah .